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  1. #11  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biccat View Post
    If God is for us, who shall stand against us?
    only reality.
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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  2. #12  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    We have no evidence of either God or extraterrestrials. All we have is speculation.

    If you're going to embrace Intelligent Design, you've got to embrace the idea that the Designer is not necessarily the highest power but perhaps just a higher power. Even Michaell Behe, one of the more religious proponents of ID, admits that the Designer implicit in the ID hypothesis is not necessarily God. William Dembski too.



    Thanks. To be blunt, I'm not a fan of Pascal's Wager, which I think should be called Pascal's Deception. My position on Pascal's Wager is more or less identical to that of Christopher Hitchens, who attacks it quite eloquently in the following bit of video from a debate...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X94YffpUryo

    So, does God admire the person who based his or her faith on what Pascal believed is the safer bet or the person who, in the absence of evidence, couldn't bring himself or herself to believe but remained honest about it? I think the answer is obvious.

    As Richard Dawkins points out in his book The God Delusion, one cannot will oneself into believing. Accepting beliefs as plausible does not make one a believer. To believe in God, one must feel that the belief is true, not just plausible.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngta1OuomzY

    Pascal himself addressed the issue of people using the wager to opt for God. As he explained the wager does not guarantee salvation. It only gives someone a reason to try to approach God on God's terms. According to scripture, however, people will have no desire to believe unless God calls them to belief. Some people He calls and some He does not. Only He knows the criteria that He uses. From our perspective the choices seem random because no was was given grace because they merited salvation. Their are two calls the general and the specific. The general call is how most people encounter Christianity. Evangelism, witnessing, etc all play a part. God makes the specific call and it is an irrestible called. One will not resist it. I did not resist it. I a little over two years ago I was basically a Taoist and my beliefs were as far from Christianity as they could be. I had not the concept of God that I do now and to me Jesus was just a really moral guy with a lot of good insight. God changed that. I became a believer literally over night. Why did He call me? I have no idea. It wasn't that I did anything to deserve it. To be honest I was not a very good person. He just said "Hey you, come here" and I did. I put down the philosophy books and picked up the Bible. Don't get me wrong I still read philosophy and science and history but I also read a lot of apologetics and theology books. My conversion both focused me and broadened my horizons when it came to gathering information. That is what God asks of me. To learn as much as I can about His word and about the world that He created and about the people in. Even though my faith is as solid as a rock, He has challenged my intellect to discover Him through His presence in the world and when I have doubts to find answers to my questions. So far I have found nothing to make me doubt His existence. It is interesting that two people can review the same information and come to two completely different conclusions but that is the way God created us.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  3. #13  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    only reality.
    Which God also created.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member InspiredHome's Avatar
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    The bones?
    Woe to those who call evil good
    and good evil,
    who put darkness for light
    and light for darkness,
    who put bitter for sweet
    and sweet for bitter.

    Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
    and clever in their own sight.

    Isaiah 5:20-21
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InspiredHome View Post
    The bones?
    The evidence... in the form of bones.
    Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member InspiredHome's Avatar
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    Oh you mean the ones based on the presupposition that the rate of decay has always been constant and that the world has been around for billions of years anyway so that it couldn't possibly be young so any evidence to the contrary is already thrown out? Those bones?
    Woe to those who call evil good
    and good evil,
    who put darkness for light
    and light for darkness,
    who put bitter for sweet
    and sweet for bitter.

    Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
    and clever in their own sight.

    Isaiah 5:20-21
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InspiredHome View Post
    Oh you mean the ones based on the presupposition that the rate of decay has always been constant and that the world has been around for billions of years anyway so that it couldn't possibly be young so any evidence to the contrary is already thrown out? Those bones?
    Yes, those bones.

    Of course, if you're going to claim that the Earth is thousands of years old, not billions of years old, then you've got to do more than show that the decay rate of Carbon 14 has not always been constant. You also have to show that the speed of light has not always been constant because that would be the only way to explain how the light from most of the stars in the sky has reached Earth. Good luck.
    Last edited by The Night Owl; 06-21-2008 at 03:49 PM.
    Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member hampshirebrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    So does 1 Peter 3:15.
    FlaGator, whatever the relative merits of our cases, it is good to see you back on CU.

    Welcome back to the fleet. :D
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member InspiredHome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hampshirebrit View Post
    FlaGator, whatever the relative merits of our cases, it is good to see you back on CU.

    Welcome back to the fleet. :D
    I concur. One of my favorite posters :)
    Woe to those who call evil good
    and good evil,
    who put darkness for light
    and light for darkness,
    who put bitter for sweet
    and sweet for bitter.

    Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
    and clever in their own sight.

    Isaiah 5:20-21
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  10. #20  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Yes, those bones.

    Of course, if you're going to claim that the Earth is thousands of years old, not billions of years old, then you've got to do more than show that the decay rate of Carbon 14 has not always been constant. You also have to show that the speed of light has not always been constant because that would be the only way to explain how the light from most of the stars in the sky has reached Earth. Good luck.
    Submitted for your approval... (best Rod Stering voice)
    For the record the speed of light is not always a constant. In a vacuum it has a constant rate of speed but with in a thick atmosphere such as earth or Jupiter it does slow down. Also as light escapes a black hole it slows down. Eventually it will reach the point where the energy of it's forward motion matches the energy of the gravity pulling on it and will actually come to a stop and reverse it's direction. This is know as the event horizon.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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